OKRs are often presented as a goal-setting framework. Something to roll out, track, and review.
Used well, OKRs are something else entirely: a learning practice that helps individuals, teams, and organizations focus on what really matters.
In this episode of Le Podcast on Emerging Leadership, I had the pleasure of welcoming Bart den Haak to explore OKRs from a very practical perspective.
From startup practice to long-term learning
Bart is a software engineer who first encountered OKRs more than ten years ago in a startup context. Since then, he has continued to use OKRs across different environments and now advises companies on how to adopt them meaningfully.
This long-term perspective makes the conversation especially grounded. We talk less about theory and more about what actually works.
Revisiting the foundations of OKRs
Building on a previous episode where I shared an approach to creating great goals using OKRs and Impact Mapping, this conversation goes deeper into the fundamentals:
- what OKRs really are
- how they differ from other goal-setting approaches such as MBOs, Balanced Scorecard, Hoshin Kanri, or 4DX
- who can use OKRs: individuals, teams, or entire organizations
- where to start when introducing OKRs
Rather than treating OKRs as a one-size-fits-all solution, we explore how context matters.
Learning zones and common pitfalls
A key part of the discussion focuses on learning.
Bart explains how OKRs can help teams:
- step out of their comfort zone
- enter a learning zone
- while avoiding the danger zone where pressure and fear take over
We also discuss common pitfalls:
- turning OKRs into performance evaluation tools
- confusing activity with impact
- setting goals that are either too safe or too vague
Resonance with practitioner leadership
Bart’s approach resonates strongly with me and aligns closely with the ideas I explore in Changing Your Team From The Inside and I am a Software Engineer and I am in Charge.
In all cases, the underlying idea is the same: leadership is a practice, and tools only work when they support responsibility and learning.
More about Bart
If you want to explore Bart’s work further:
Bart is also currently working on a book about OKRs. I’ll be sure to share more when it’s available.
A final thought
OKRs don’t create clarity by themselves. People do.
Used with intention, OKRs can become a powerful way to focus attention, learn faster, and increase impact without falling into control or bureaucracy.
Le Podcast – Season Two
- Playful Leadership: Helping Others Be Their Best

- Blessed, Grateful, and Human

- Build the Right Product, with Gojko Adzic

- Hiring and Diversity Without Dropping the Bar

- Leadership and Teamwork in a Crisis

- Chief of Staff: The Role, the Craft, the Community

- Belonging, Identity, and Better Hiring,

- What Software Teams Can Learn from Sporting Teams

- Agile and Open Innovation: Building the Bridge Between Tech and Business

- Radical Focus: OKRs, Cadence, and the “Seduction of the Task”

- Human-Centric Agility Coaching: The Expert Paradox and the Ideology Paradox

- The Job of an Open Leader: Context, Trust, and Growing Others

Le Podcast – Season One
- Growing as a Software Engineer: Learning, Sharing, and Impact

- Thirteen Rules for Building Strong Teams

- OKRs in Practice: Learning, Focus, and Common Pitfalls

- The Myth of 10x Engineers: Growing Beyond Technical Skills

- The Anatomy of Peace: Leadership Starts With Who You Are

- Psychological Safety: Creating Teams Where People Can Speak Up

- Leading Distributed Teams: Collaboration Across Time Zones

- Changing Your Team from the Inside: A Practitioner’s View on Leadership

- Why Shared Language Matters: How Terms Shape Collaboration

- How (Not) to Give Feedback: Responsibility, Ego, and Relationships

- Rock Stars and Superstars: Supporting Growth Without Losing Stability

- Do Cultural Differences Really Block Agile Adoption?

- How to Create Great Goals: Using OKRs to Focus on Impact

- Making Change from the Inside: Leadership Beyond Management Roles

- How to Form a Cross-Functional Team That Actually Works

